summercomfort (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
summercomfort) wrote2014-07-30 05:38 pm
summercomfort) wrote2014-07-30 05:38 pm
Question for Tisquantum Readers
So Satyreyes (my beta) and I are discussing the upcoming scene in Tisquantum, which is tied into Sasaso's beliefs, and it turns out we have very different takes on the status of Sasaso's faith in his gods!
So I'm really curious what others see as Sasaso's attitude -- about new gods and old.
Here's the conversation we've had so far:
Me:
Sasaso's devotion/faith is something that I've been thinking about/working through -- in my headcanon, he's never quite trusted the gods -- from feeling slighted by the lack of vision as a kid (Mosq believes, he does not. He wasn't sure the gods would be there for his Winter Ritual, etc) to the resolution in the marketplace, I feel like devotion and faith has always been something that happens to other people, which Sasaso can observe and invoke, but I don't think he *really* believes. But I guess that's never been clear in the comic. ... I guess something I'm trying to explore in Sasaso's character is where do you put your faith? In yourself? In your family and culture and tradition? In your gods and destiny?
Satyreyes:
As far as Sasaso's faith... I'm becoming aware that my own upbringing, in sort of a liberal Judeo-Christian model of faith, is coloring my understanding of Sasaso. To me, there is a ton of difference between believing in god and trusting in god. To me there is no contradiction at all between Sasaso feeling resentful of his vision, chary of his Winter Ritual, etc., and still believing in the gods; millions of Christians have never experienced God and would not put their fate in his hands, yet they would never call themselves agnostic. I have been confidently reading Sasaso's character in exactly this way. He believes in the gods in an abstract way, but he doesn't trust in them in a concrete way, and that's why his faith is not located in religion per se. That's completely intuitive to me. But maybe if your culture emphasizes the actual efficacy of the gods, as the Patuxet seem to, not trusting in the gods is tantamount to not believing in them. Thinking of it that way helps me understand Sasaso's alienation. If he prays and makes totems but doesn't expect the gods' intervention on his behalf -- or is unsatisfied with the intervention he gets -- that's not just materialistic, it's impious bordering on atheism. No wonder he feels set apart.
Me:
And I have to admit that my understanding of Sasaso is colored by *my* religious upbringing, which is basically to say -- none. Or rather, it's very Chinese folk religion, which is like "hey when you pass by a temple it doesn't hurt to go in and burn some incense, and maybe it works or maybe it doesn't, but it doesn't really matter." So mostly secular with a dash of appreciation for rituals/myths without actual Belief in either the gods/boddhisattvas' existence or efficacy.
So it's hard for me to imagine a spiritual world occupied by multiple spirits/manitou representing different forces of nature, which you can invoke, and they might help you, they might not, but they sure as heck are mystical and present. And occurances and dreams might be signs or visions, or they might not. And political power and agency in affecting change in this world is very much connected to one's ability to tap into the spiritual/natural forces (so many political leaders who are also shamans/powows).
Anyways, if you've been keeping up with the comic -- what do you think?
So I'm really curious what others see as Sasaso's attitude -- about new gods and old.
Here's the conversation we've had so far:
Me:
Sasaso's devotion/faith is something that I've been thinking about/working through -- in my headcanon, he's never quite trusted the gods -- from feeling slighted by the lack of vision as a kid (Mosq believes, he does not. He wasn't sure the gods would be there for his Winter Ritual, etc) to the resolution in the marketplace, I feel like devotion and faith has always been something that happens to other people, which Sasaso can observe and invoke, but I don't think he *really* believes. But I guess that's never been clear in the comic. ... I guess something I'm trying to explore in Sasaso's character is where do you put your faith? In yourself? In your family and culture and tradition? In your gods and destiny?
Satyreyes:
As far as Sasaso's faith... I'm becoming aware that my own upbringing, in sort of a liberal Judeo-Christian model of faith, is coloring my understanding of Sasaso. To me, there is a ton of difference between believing in god and trusting in god. To me there is no contradiction at all between Sasaso feeling resentful of his vision, chary of his Winter Ritual, etc., and still believing in the gods; millions of Christians have never experienced God and would not put their fate in his hands, yet they would never call themselves agnostic. I have been confidently reading Sasaso's character in exactly this way. He believes in the gods in an abstract way, but he doesn't trust in them in a concrete way, and that's why his faith is not located in religion per se. That's completely intuitive to me. But maybe if your culture emphasizes the actual efficacy of the gods, as the Patuxet seem to, not trusting in the gods is tantamount to not believing in them. Thinking of it that way helps me understand Sasaso's alienation. If he prays and makes totems but doesn't expect the gods' intervention on his behalf -- or is unsatisfied with the intervention he gets -- that's not just materialistic, it's impious bordering on atheism. No wonder he feels set apart.
Me:
And I have to admit that my understanding of Sasaso is colored by *my* religious upbringing, which is basically to say -- none. Or rather, it's very Chinese folk religion, which is like "hey when you pass by a temple it doesn't hurt to go in and burn some incense, and maybe it works or maybe it doesn't, but it doesn't really matter." So mostly secular with a dash of appreciation for rituals/myths without actual Belief in either the gods/boddhisattvas' existence or efficacy.
So it's hard for me to imagine a spiritual world occupied by multiple spirits/manitou representing different forces of nature, which you can invoke, and they might help you, they might not, but they sure as heck are mystical and present. And occurances and dreams might be signs or visions, or they might not. And political power and agency in affecting change in this world is very much connected to one's ability to tap into the spiritual/natural forces (so many political leaders who are also shamans/powows).
Anyways, if you've been keeping up with the comic -- what do you think?