summercomfort (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
summercomfort) wrote2014-07-10 12:37 am
summercomfort) wrote2014-07-10 12:37 am
More Snowpiercer!!
Okay, I'm back. SO MANY FEEEEELS.
Firstly, OMG I totally saw Franco the Elder and Franco the Younger being in a relationship (funny that they basically don't say anything, but the way the Younger puts his head on the Elder....), and there's also definitely something going on between Grey and Gilliam. <3
So, I have a lot of feelings and opinions! Putting them behind cuts because SPOILERS
On being a good father(-figure): Gilliam-Curtis, Curtis-Edgar, Namgoong-Yona
Namgoong is an excellent father -- he shields her from all of the violence, and protects her every step of the way. (Hiding her when the violence starts, stopping her from stabbing Franco, trying to stop her from shooting Franco, etc.) As a result, Yona grows up sane and innocent.
Compare that to Gilliam-Curtis and Curtis-Edgar. Curtis sees Gilliam as hope and salvation, and Edgar sees the same in Curtis. However, because both Curtis and Gilliam have shadows and secrets, their relationships collapse when the secrets are revealed. Edgar represents Curtis' guilt, yet Curtis does nothing to shield Edgar from experiencing raw human brutality during the Yekaterina battle. Instead, Edgar sees Curtis perform one brutal act after another: axing a guy in the face after Edgar jumped in front of him, making the choice to pursue the revolution instead of Edgar -- those are not wrong decisions, but they were inhumane ones.
Likewise, Gilliam tries to counsel Curtis, but he, too, cannot tell Edgar the whole truth: that he made a deal with Wilford in order to keep order in the tail of the train (more on that later). Because Gilliam couldn't bring himself to tell Curtis, to warn him, it made it that much easier for Wilford to destroy Curtis' one source of salvation and compassion: his memory of Gilliam. (Curtis told Yona he doesn't like to remember his life before Gilliam, not Edgar as I'd previously thought. Curtis is trying so hard to be more like Gilliam, to let go of his violent, inhumane past, and yet the revolution strips that from him, bit by bit.)
And so, at the very end, Yona is there to mourn Namgoong, but Curtis has no one to truly mourn him -- Edgar and Gilliam are both dead.
--------------------
Gilliam the Compassionate Optimist vs. Wilford the Dispassionate Pessimist vs. Namgoong the neutral wildcard
Gilliam. I have sooo many feeling about Gilliam. He basically created societal order out of nothing by an act of supreme sacrifice that reminded everyone else to care about the lives of other people -- not just family, but actually complete strangers. He inspired others to make the same sacrifice. I'm just speculating here, but I'm guessing that after everyone heralds him as the leader of the tail section, *that's* when Wilford makes the phone call and basically says "I'll send over protein bars if you help keep the population balance." For Gilliam, the revolutions are another form of sacrifice to keep the tail section's society alive -- he clearly cares so much about everyone -- the way he stands up to Minister Mason, the way he tries to call off the revolution after the victory at Yekaterina, not because he doubts Curtis' potential for success, but because *so many more will be hurt*. Gilliam plays by Wilford's rules because otherwise 74% of the tail would be indiscriminately killed. (Gilliam is the one who closes Edgar's eyes, *not* Curtis. Curtis is too torn between his brutality and his compassion.)
Wilford, on the other hand, is so dispassionate. I loved the line where he tells Curtis that after all, when left to their own devices, people devour each other. Wilford is basically okay with that -- he sees that as humanity, and as long as he can maintain his perfect systemic balance, he sees no reason to intercede. In fact, once the tail people got on, Wilford basically reduced them to their State of Nature by taking away everything, and let them fight it out. Compare that to Gilliam, who was in the thick of all that devouring, and chose to let others devour him in order to save a life. That action makes all the difference -- one destroys society, one creates society.
But both Wilford and Gilliam care about society and humanity (Wilford because it's a cold system to maintain, and Gilliam because those are people), and so do their part to maintain it. Namgoong, on the other hand, only cares about Yona. As the intellectual, he recognizes that living on the train is not sustainable, so he is the one who truly wants to break the system. He doesn't really participate in any of the fights between the front and the tail -- he just wants Yona to touch the ground, and that is why he is aware of the outside and the door outside. Everyone else on the train is so obsessed with the front and the middle and back, no one looks to the side. Even though everyone on the train is slightly crazy, to leave the system is even crazier.
--------------------------------
The Front, the Middle, the Tail: Systemic Ritual and System Awareness
This time through, I noticed a lot of stark differences between the front, the middle, and the tail. For one thing: windows. The tail has no windows, which is why after 17 years on the train, they didn't know that a long tunnel follows Yekaterina bridge. I'm guessing the only way they can keep track of time is by the various holiday celebrations that Wilford bequeathes. But, interestingly, the front doesn't have windows, either. Instead, it's a sauna, a rave car, an opium car, and the engine. The passengers of the front are similarly encouraged to not look outside, to think that the train *is* the world. It is only the middle of the train that have the windows. Namgoong is from the middle. Wilford is exclusively in the front -- I found it particularly ironic when he's standing with Curtis in the Engine and saying "what do you see? All the cars and people in their place -- the train and humanity", when all we see is a closed door. All Wilford can see is the engine and his beautiful closed systems, which is why he, like Curtis, cannot imagine a life outside the train.
Secondly, society and rituals. The people of the tail section have a pretty organic society -- people yell at each other, everyone keeps their belongings close, but there are friendships and an artist who serves as a historian. They're willing to work together by contributing their metal barrels, but that doesn't mean they won't grouse about it. But when they come to the middle, that's when all the rituals start showing up -- from the weird fish thing that's probably a military ritual, to the entire school scene, to only eating sushi twice a year... the middle is kept regimented and SO FAKE. Perhaps as a way to keep the middle in line. After all, the middle are the people who serve the front and regulate the back. The middle are the ones with the windows. It's important that the middle buy into the myth of the sacred engine and the certainty of death beyond the train. And then in the front, the rituals disappear and it is once again chaos, but it is a chaos that comes from having everything, versus the tail where they have nothing. The scene with Curtis walking through the rave car -- the people of the front just seem so absurd and disconnected with the rest of the train. I've definitely felt that way when I encounter the super-wealthy in our society -- this sense of absolute foreignness and disbelief -- "really? is this your life?"
And this is why you have to be slightly crazy to live on the train -- if you're in the tail, you need to be willing to do anything to survive. If you are fortunate enough to start in the middle or get pulled up to the middle (after all, what purpose does the tail serve except as raw material for the middle?), you are so thankful that you're not just surviving on protein bars and that you have a window that you succumb to the propaganda and the rituals and the faith in the engine. And if you're in the front, you're crazy in that insular, drug-addled, "there's no one but us" way.
But the whole system is built on the lie that the engine is eternal: it is not. Things are breaking down everywhere in the train -- people are having to make do with manual switches, more and more things are running out. When we have the window shoot-out, I'm guessing there aren't extra window panes on board that they can use to replace the broken windows -- all they can do is fill it with putty. And of course, the biggest lie of all -- the engine is not eternal -- more and more of it is run on the bodies of the children of the tail. Curtis, standing in the engine, almost bought into Wilford's lies, but once that illusion is broken (and it *is* an illusion -- Curtis wasn't even ever truly alone), the entire illusion of the train's system breaks.
(Brief aside about color: the tail is desaturated, but a mixture of warm and cool. The middle is saturated colors of the rainbow, and the engine room is white, but not quite the pure white of the outside -- it's ... off, somehow ... it promises to be the world but isn't.)
(This movie really made me want to break the system. Hmm... what system do we have in this world that we are convinced is The Only Thing That Works, but is actually more broken than it claims to be, but we're too busy being part of that system to really break out? For me, it's capitalism, especially the industrialization process that destroys the environment.)
-----------------------
Curtis vs. Yona as the source of salvation
Which brings me back to Curtis and Yona. Throughout the movie, Curtis is seen as the savior -- he's the leader, and so many people die for him, especially Edgar, Gilliam, and Grey. But in the end, he almost chooses to become the new leader -- perpetuate the system. If it weren't for Yona. Yona was the one who set the explosive, got the matches, and found Timmy. She was the one, who, even after her father dies, finds the courage and the curiosity to step out of the train. She's able to do so because Namgoong was a good father -- guided her, kept her safe, kept her sane. I don't know how Namgoong did it, but she is untouched by the brutality of the tail, the rituals of the middle, or the haze of the front. She probably the only one on the train who isn't slightly crazy.
Revenge can get you far (see Franco and Curtis after the death of their loved ones), but not far enough. In the end, it takes hope. And that's why, on the second watch-through, I have so much confidence that Yona's going to make it outside the train.
(Good job Namgoong!)
Firstly, OMG I totally saw Franco the Elder and Franco the Younger being in a relationship (funny that they basically don't say anything, but the way the Younger puts his head on the Elder....), and there's also definitely something going on between Grey and Gilliam. <3
So, I have a lot of feelings and opinions! Putting them behind cuts because SPOILERS
On being a good father(-figure): Gilliam-Curtis, Curtis-Edgar, Namgoong-Yona
Namgoong is an excellent father -- he shields her from all of the violence, and protects her every step of the way. (Hiding her when the violence starts, stopping her from stabbing Franco, trying to stop her from shooting Franco, etc.) As a result, Yona grows up sane and innocent.
Compare that to Gilliam-Curtis and Curtis-Edgar. Curtis sees Gilliam as hope and salvation, and Edgar sees the same in Curtis. However, because both Curtis and Gilliam have shadows and secrets, their relationships collapse when the secrets are revealed. Edgar represents Curtis' guilt, yet Curtis does nothing to shield Edgar from experiencing raw human brutality during the Yekaterina battle. Instead, Edgar sees Curtis perform one brutal act after another: axing a guy in the face after Edgar jumped in front of him, making the choice to pursue the revolution instead of Edgar -- those are not wrong decisions, but they were inhumane ones.
Likewise, Gilliam tries to counsel Curtis, but he, too, cannot tell Edgar the whole truth: that he made a deal with Wilford in order to keep order in the tail of the train (more on that later). Because Gilliam couldn't bring himself to tell Curtis, to warn him, it made it that much easier for Wilford to destroy Curtis' one source of salvation and compassion: his memory of Gilliam. (Curtis told Yona he doesn't like to remember his life before Gilliam, not Edgar as I'd previously thought. Curtis is trying so hard to be more like Gilliam, to let go of his violent, inhumane past, and yet the revolution strips that from him, bit by bit.)
And so, at the very end, Yona is there to mourn Namgoong, but Curtis has no one to truly mourn him -- Edgar and Gilliam are both dead.
--------------------
Gilliam the Compassionate Optimist vs. Wilford the Dispassionate Pessimist vs. Namgoong the neutral wildcard
Gilliam. I have sooo many feeling about Gilliam. He basically created societal order out of nothing by an act of supreme sacrifice that reminded everyone else to care about the lives of other people -- not just family, but actually complete strangers. He inspired others to make the same sacrifice. I'm just speculating here, but I'm guessing that after everyone heralds him as the leader of the tail section, *that's* when Wilford makes the phone call and basically says "I'll send over protein bars if you help keep the population balance." For Gilliam, the revolutions are another form of sacrifice to keep the tail section's society alive -- he clearly cares so much about everyone -- the way he stands up to Minister Mason, the way he tries to call off the revolution after the victory at Yekaterina, not because he doubts Curtis' potential for success, but because *so many more will be hurt*. Gilliam plays by Wilford's rules because otherwise 74% of the tail would be indiscriminately killed. (Gilliam is the one who closes Edgar's eyes, *not* Curtis. Curtis is too torn between his brutality and his compassion.)
Wilford, on the other hand, is so dispassionate. I loved the line where he tells Curtis that after all, when left to their own devices, people devour each other. Wilford is basically okay with that -- he sees that as humanity, and as long as he can maintain his perfect systemic balance, he sees no reason to intercede. In fact, once the tail people got on, Wilford basically reduced them to their State of Nature by taking away everything, and let them fight it out. Compare that to Gilliam, who was in the thick of all that devouring, and chose to let others devour him in order to save a life. That action makes all the difference -- one destroys society, one creates society.
But both Wilford and Gilliam care about society and humanity (Wilford because it's a cold system to maintain, and Gilliam because those are people), and so do their part to maintain it. Namgoong, on the other hand, only cares about Yona. As the intellectual, he recognizes that living on the train is not sustainable, so he is the one who truly wants to break the system. He doesn't really participate in any of the fights between the front and the tail -- he just wants Yona to touch the ground, and that is why he is aware of the outside and the door outside. Everyone else on the train is so obsessed with the front and the middle and back, no one looks to the side. Even though everyone on the train is slightly crazy, to leave the system is even crazier.
--------------------------------
The Front, the Middle, the Tail: Systemic Ritual and System Awareness
This time through, I noticed a lot of stark differences between the front, the middle, and the tail. For one thing: windows. The tail has no windows, which is why after 17 years on the train, they didn't know that a long tunnel follows Yekaterina bridge. I'm guessing the only way they can keep track of time is by the various holiday celebrations that Wilford bequeathes. But, interestingly, the front doesn't have windows, either. Instead, it's a sauna, a rave car, an opium car, and the engine. The passengers of the front are similarly encouraged to not look outside, to think that the train *is* the world. It is only the middle of the train that have the windows. Namgoong is from the middle. Wilford is exclusively in the front -- I found it particularly ironic when he's standing with Curtis in the Engine and saying "what do you see? All the cars and people in their place -- the train and humanity", when all we see is a closed door. All Wilford can see is the engine and his beautiful closed systems, which is why he, like Curtis, cannot imagine a life outside the train.
Secondly, society and rituals. The people of the tail section have a pretty organic society -- people yell at each other, everyone keeps their belongings close, but there are friendships and an artist who serves as a historian. They're willing to work together by contributing their metal barrels, but that doesn't mean they won't grouse about it. But when they come to the middle, that's when all the rituals start showing up -- from the weird fish thing that's probably a military ritual, to the entire school scene, to only eating sushi twice a year... the middle is kept regimented and SO FAKE. Perhaps as a way to keep the middle in line. After all, the middle are the people who serve the front and regulate the back. The middle are the ones with the windows. It's important that the middle buy into the myth of the sacred engine and the certainty of death beyond the train. And then in the front, the rituals disappear and it is once again chaos, but it is a chaos that comes from having everything, versus the tail where they have nothing. The scene with Curtis walking through the rave car -- the people of the front just seem so absurd and disconnected with the rest of the train. I've definitely felt that way when I encounter the super-wealthy in our society -- this sense of absolute foreignness and disbelief -- "really? is this your life?"
And this is why you have to be slightly crazy to live on the train -- if you're in the tail, you need to be willing to do anything to survive. If you are fortunate enough to start in the middle or get pulled up to the middle (after all, what purpose does the tail serve except as raw material for the middle?), you are so thankful that you're not just surviving on protein bars and that you have a window that you succumb to the propaganda and the rituals and the faith in the engine. And if you're in the front, you're crazy in that insular, drug-addled, "there's no one but us" way.
But the whole system is built on the lie that the engine is eternal: it is not. Things are breaking down everywhere in the train -- people are having to make do with manual switches, more and more things are running out. When we have the window shoot-out, I'm guessing there aren't extra window panes on board that they can use to replace the broken windows -- all they can do is fill it with putty. And of course, the biggest lie of all -- the engine is not eternal -- more and more of it is run on the bodies of the children of the tail. Curtis, standing in the engine, almost bought into Wilford's lies, but once that illusion is broken (and it *is* an illusion -- Curtis wasn't even ever truly alone), the entire illusion of the train's system breaks.
(Brief aside about color: the tail is desaturated, but a mixture of warm and cool. The middle is saturated colors of the rainbow, and the engine room is white, but not quite the pure white of the outside -- it's ... off, somehow ... it promises to be the world but isn't.)
(This movie really made me want to break the system. Hmm... what system do we have in this world that we are convinced is The Only Thing That Works, but is actually more broken than it claims to be, but we're too busy being part of that system to really break out? For me, it's capitalism, especially the industrialization process that destroys the environment.)
-----------------------
Curtis vs. Yona as the source of salvation
Which brings me back to Curtis and Yona. Throughout the movie, Curtis is seen as the savior -- he's the leader, and so many people die for him, especially Edgar, Gilliam, and Grey. But in the end, he almost chooses to become the new leader -- perpetuate the system. If it weren't for Yona. Yona was the one who set the explosive, got the matches, and found Timmy. She was the one, who, even after her father dies, finds the courage and the curiosity to step out of the train. She's able to do so because Namgoong was a good father -- guided her, kept her safe, kept her sane. I don't know how Namgoong did it, but she is untouched by the brutality of the tail, the rituals of the middle, or the haze of the front. She probably the only one on the train who isn't slightly crazy.
Revenge can get you far (see Franco and Curtis after the death of their loved ones), but not far enough. In the end, it takes hope. And that's why, on the second watch-through, I have so much confidence that Yona's going to make it outside the train.
(Good job Namgoong!)
no subject
I am a huge fan of the asymmetry of this film. I enjoyed it when they unceremoniously turned tropes on their heads. Especially when they do so by withholding information from the audience, and then letting them make false assumptions.
Also, what up with the fish hoodie guys?? I'm perplexed as to why their sudden appearance was wordlessly accepted by the tail people. They don't resemble the traditional modern-soldier type military from the rest of the train...yet no one seems thrown by the fish cult.
LOVE the repetitive gestures incorporated into all the propaganda! Was Mason formerly a child of the engine? (What happens when they get too big?)
But is Yona really untouched? She kicks the debris that impales Franco (sideburns). Why does she seem "clairvoyant"? Granted, Namgoong does do a hell of a job trying to keep her insulated. (I think that's why she's stoned so much of the time? Can't get traumatized if you're too high to recall the scary stuff.)
no subject
Yay! So glad you got a chance to watch it!!!!! Jono's been posting his thoughts on tumblr -- http://jonomancer.tumblr.com/post/91336487676/my-favorite-things-about-snowpiercer-on-second-watch and http://jonomancer.tumblr.com/post/91469623796/yes-still-more-thoughts-about-snowpiercer
Maybe there's only 1 cow, so only Wilford gets to eat steak. (Maybe they just cut it from the cow and let the cow re-grow that flesh?) Or maybe it isn't cow at all. (We already have a case of Edgar remembering eating """"steak"""" as a kid...)
I think the fish hoodie guys are the soldiers who are usually in the barracks (the empty room that they walked through) -- they were pulled up to guard the water car because that's where Wilford planned for it all to go down. The fish thing I'm just attributing weird Middle of the Train Rituals.
I loved the teacher rituals soooo much! On the 2nd watchthrough I was totally doing all the hand signs. :D
I think Yona is as untouched as Namgoong could manage, but yeah -- she's also drinking booze and passing out and shooting at Franco. But compared to Edgar, she's pretty shielded.
Mason being a former train child forced to do maintain the train was a theory that Chris had, but I think Mason's too old for that. I see that gesture as the universal shorthand for "everything has an order, everyone in their place."
no subject
Yeah, Mason might be too old. But I love how nostalgic fangirl she is watching the video/song!
What about clothes? Husband thinks they must be able to manufacture more on the train, but I'm not convinced. Also, assuming that everyone behind the first 4 cars didn't die horribly in the explosion...did Namgoong just plan for people to freeze to death? (Winter outerwear looked scarce among all sections of the train)
no subject
no subject
I agree with you that the prison section is probably full of skilled Middle laborers -- a way to keep the Middle in line -- if instead of doing your jobs you're questioning authority or getting high on Kronole, we'll put you in prison until you're ready to be a productive member of society again. Somehow I don't see the Tail folks being put in prison -- just amputations or outright killings.
I'm on the "no more new clothes" side -- basically they have a limit of fabric -- it takes a LOT of effort to go from cotton to fabric (although if they have a car of sheep, they might have some wool possibilities.) However, I feel like this falls into "don't overthink it" category -- let's just pretend there's enough cars growing food and other supplies to sustain the Front/Middle.
The director said that Namgoong just wanted to blast open the door, and didn't plan on the avalanche. But I also feel like Namgoong doesn't really care about anyone other than Yona, so I guess my interpretation is that he doesn't give a fuck if the other people freeze to death. (He did give Curtis a cigarrette, though, so maybe he cares a bit about Curtis, too.)
Man, Mason and Gilliam are such ambiguous characters. I love them. I keep thinking back to Wilford saying that you have to be a little bit insane to be on the train. <3