summercomfort (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
summercomfort) wrote2008-07-20 01:45 am
summercomfort) wrote2008-07-20 01:45 am
Dark Knight
Okay, now that I'm more coherent and it's a day later, let's have some more coherent talk about Dark Knight. Well, mostly me thinking through the film.
One of the reviewers complained that the plot is muddled and it's always a climax, to which I say, well, yes, isn't life like that? There are beginnings and endings, sure, but really, it's just night after night of fighting villains and stitching yourself back again during the day, and you really feel that in the movie. Perhaps the climax is the end of the film, where Batman is running and you realize that the rest of his life will be more of the same. Batman Begins is about Bruce Wayne. This movie is about Batman. Bruce Wayne is just the mask, which makes most of the Bruce Wayne moments shallow.
At the same time, it is about saving Bruce Wayne. There's the famous line where Rachel says to Bruce, "I can't be your only chance for a normal life," but is she? When it comes down to it, who does Batman save? Harvey Dent. After all, it's Harvey Dent's success as a law-abiding DA that will allow Bruce Wayne to stop the night gig and have a normal life. Normal life for Bruce Wayne includes spending it with Rachel, but that's the end, not the means.
Of course, it is also and always about saving Gotham, and how far you're willing to go to do this. This is the darkness of the movie. You're not supposed to agree with Batman's methods. I hesitate to call this a superhero movie, because his methods are not glorified. As the movie reiterates again and again, he is no hero. Batman's interrogation methods are brutal, he violates international law, he cares for nothing except for saving Gotham. He is willing to battle and destroy anyone and anything to achieve this goal -- including himself. He doesn't want copycats because what he does is not glorious or heroic. And yet, this is the Batman that Harvey gave himself up to save.
Joker understands this. The foil. The one who laughs in the face of Batman. The one who pushes the envelope just because he can. What I love about this Joker is that he is not disrupting the order of the city, but the order in men's minds. Sadistic little tricks like "kill this person or I blow up a hospital", "kill them or I kill both in 10 minutes", etc. Batman's singular purpose makes him more fun to break. At the same time, Batman is already so broken because he is already outside of law and propriety and anything resembling normalcy. I found it so interesting when Joker saves Batman by calling into the news show. (Batman, not Bruce Wayne. I'm don't think he cares about Bruce Wayne, except as a path to Batman). He wants to keep having fun, I suppose.
I love it because it's dark. Because Rachel dying would not have happened in Spiderman or Superman. Because it's about doing your best and damning yourself in the process. I really need to watch it again, to catch more of the plot and themes. (Sometimes the monologue-y bits are hard to catch, like Rachel's letter to Bruce. And I'm still not absolutely sure if Joker switched the addresses he gave to Batman).
And now let's talk about the actual movie!
Heath Ledger's Joker = amazing. Such calculated chaos. I love how nothing (and yet everything) he does is crazy. I love his many blades and many stories about his scars. I made a Mii for him. Only problem is that we won't get a repeat performance in the next Batman. D: Especially since he's the only confirmed alive villain.
Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne = hawt as always, but not enough non-fake-player Bruce Wayne. But he made the most of the 3 scenes he had -- his earnesty and touch of desperation reminds us of his youth. Also: sleepy!Bruce!
Christian Bale's Batman = angsty, but too hidden behind the mask. I suppose that's the point, but the growly!voice sometimes just makes him sound boring and stupid.
Aaron Eckhart's Harvey Dent = Unsatisfactory for variety of reasons. Didn't glow "knight in shining armor" in the beginning (two-faced too early), not enough Two-Face mania at the end. I really really hope he didn't die. They just have him falling and then lying prone. They had a memorial service for Harvey, but they might have hidden Two-Face somewhere for some plastic surgery.
Maggie Gyllenhaal's Rachel = not enough screen time for proper character development to explain why she's in love with Harvey. Also, too much damsel in distress time. She was shown as competent for, like, 4 seconds.
Gary Oldman's Gordon = awesome. I didn't think about him being Gary Oldman until, like, the next day. The fake death thing was random, though.
Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman solid as always.
Plot = confusing at parts, but not too bad once you remember to watch the mobsters. (They are the clients in this movie)
Fights = awesome. Batpod was cool, Joker plots like a madman, and "extradicting" the Chinese dude was awesome.
Visuals = well integrated. Gotham definitely feels more New York than Chicago in this one, but we don't see too much of the city, really.
Anyways, in conclusion: full of awesomeness. Will watch again if possible. Perhaps on IMAX?
Have I mentioned that Christian Bale is really hot?
One of the reviewers complained that the plot is muddled and it's always a climax, to which I say, well, yes, isn't life like that? There are beginnings and endings, sure, but really, it's just night after night of fighting villains and stitching yourself back again during the day, and you really feel that in the movie. Perhaps the climax is the end of the film, where Batman is running and you realize that the rest of his life will be more of the same. Batman Begins is about Bruce Wayne. This movie is about Batman. Bruce Wayne is just the mask, which makes most of the Bruce Wayne moments shallow.
At the same time, it is about saving Bruce Wayne. There's the famous line where Rachel says to Bruce, "I can't be your only chance for a normal life," but is she? When it comes down to it, who does Batman save? Harvey Dent. After all, it's Harvey Dent's success as a law-abiding DA that will allow Bruce Wayne to stop the night gig and have a normal life. Normal life for Bruce Wayne includes spending it with Rachel, but that's the end, not the means.
Of course, it is also and always about saving Gotham, and how far you're willing to go to do this. This is the darkness of the movie. You're not supposed to agree with Batman's methods. I hesitate to call this a superhero movie, because his methods are not glorified. As the movie reiterates again and again, he is no hero. Batman's interrogation methods are brutal, he violates international law, he cares for nothing except for saving Gotham. He is willing to battle and destroy anyone and anything to achieve this goal -- including himself. He doesn't want copycats because what he does is not glorious or heroic. And yet, this is the Batman that Harvey gave himself up to save.
Joker understands this. The foil. The one who laughs in the face of Batman. The one who pushes the envelope just because he can. What I love about this Joker is that he is not disrupting the order of the city, but the order in men's minds. Sadistic little tricks like "kill this person or I blow up a hospital", "kill them or I kill both in 10 minutes", etc. Batman's singular purpose makes him more fun to break. At the same time, Batman is already so broken because he is already outside of law and propriety and anything resembling normalcy. I found it so interesting when Joker saves Batman by calling into the news show. (Batman, not Bruce Wayne. I'm don't think he cares about Bruce Wayne, except as a path to Batman). He wants to keep having fun, I suppose.
I love it because it's dark. Because Rachel dying would not have happened in Spiderman or Superman. Because it's about doing your best and damning yourself in the process. I really need to watch it again, to catch more of the plot and themes. (Sometimes the monologue-y bits are hard to catch, like Rachel's letter to Bruce. And I'm still not absolutely sure if Joker switched the addresses he gave to Batman).
And now let's talk about the actual movie!
Heath Ledger's Joker = amazing. Such calculated chaos. I love how nothing (and yet everything) he does is crazy. I love his many blades and many stories about his scars. I made a Mii for him. Only problem is that we won't get a repeat performance in the next Batman. D: Especially since he's the only confirmed alive villain.
Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne = hawt as always, but not enough non-fake-player Bruce Wayne. But he made the most of the 3 scenes he had -- his earnesty and touch of desperation reminds us of his youth. Also: sleepy!Bruce!
Christian Bale's Batman = angsty, but too hidden behind the mask. I suppose that's the point, but the growly!voice sometimes just makes him sound boring and stupid.
Aaron Eckhart's Harvey Dent = Unsatisfactory for variety of reasons. Didn't glow "knight in shining armor" in the beginning (two-faced too early), not enough Two-Face mania at the end. I really really hope he didn't die. They just have him falling and then lying prone. They had a memorial service for Harvey, but they might have hidden Two-Face somewhere for some plastic surgery.
Maggie Gyllenhaal's Rachel = not enough screen time for proper character development to explain why she's in love with Harvey. Also, too much damsel in distress time. She was shown as competent for, like, 4 seconds.
Gary Oldman's Gordon = awesome. I didn't think about him being Gary Oldman until, like, the next day. The fake death thing was random, though.
Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman solid as always.
Plot = confusing at parts, but not too bad once you remember to watch the mobsters. (They are the clients in this movie)
Fights = awesome. Batpod was cool, Joker plots like a madman, and "extradicting" the Chinese dude was awesome.
Visuals = well integrated. Gotham definitely feels more New York than Chicago in this one, but we don't see too much of the city, really.
Anyways, in conclusion: full of awesomeness. Will watch again if possible. Perhaps on IMAX?
Have I mentioned that Christian Bale is really hot?
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I also felt there wasn't enough Bruce Wayne. And I hated the new Rachel. At least we won't have to deal with her anymore in future sequels. A real shame the same could be said for the Joker. D:
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I feel like Rachel just has such a 2-dimensional role in this movie as holy grail of love interest, that no one could have made her likeable as a person, not even Maggie Gyllenhaal.
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i disagree, we saw tons of Chicago: lower Wacker, LaSalle, etc.
growly voice = smart cuz he has to hide his real voice from people
Also, did they mention it in the movie if people in Gotham City just assume Harvey Dent was Batman and faked his death so he could continue being Batman? I recall it being a closed-casket type of thing...
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Yeah, I know what the growly voice is for. I'm just saying it's not good for showing emotional range.
I don't think it's mentioned in the movie, but since it ended with a "you must glorify Harvey Dent and bash Batman" thing, I would assume they would be pretty explicitly, "Harvey Dent != Batman. Harvey Dent = good. Batman = cop-killing vigilante. We <3 Harvey" etc etc
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For me, the movie didn't feel like a summer blockbuster.. too dark and too suspenseful. And the climaxes don't mesh with that kind of expectation either, especially if you listen to the score from those scenes. It's that high-pitched, continuous note that you'd find more often in horror films...that makes you wince in agony because it's not building to anything---the suspense just hovers until it snaps without any audible warning. Every climax is a crisis, and the crises don't stop when the main villain's favorite pastimes are hostage-taking, ransom, and good old-fashioned anarchy.
I'm not sure how I feel about growly voice. On the one hand, it's harder to understand because it's heavy on the monotone. But, on the other, it's a simple and stylish way to distinguish when "Batman" is talking and when "Bruce" is talking, even when he's in the batsuit. (I'm thinking in particular of the double hostage scene when his voice breaks.)
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Oooooooooooh damn good point.
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COUGHCOUGHGWENSTACYCOUGH
And some points from your last
spoiler failedpost:- so... Bruce deciding to save Harvey -- is that because he selfishly wants to eventually save himself, or because he wants to save Gotham?
Must be both, because saving Gotham => saving himself (except for what Rachel points out at the end, that he can't leave Batman behind anymore). I can't say what was going through his mind (har) but from my viewpoint, it seems clear that saving Harvey has more benefits than saving Rachel would.
- Wait, did Fox seriously resign? :(
Well he said he wouldn't work there as long as the sonar x-ray doohickey exists and he blew it up so...
- Okay, if the boat scenario really happened, would that have resulted?
Hellllz no. That's one of the dissatisfactions I have with the movie, that if they wanted to suggest that Batman and/or Harvey had managed to inspire the people with hope, they never showed or built up to anything like that at all.
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re:boat-- I don't think the boat people did what they did out of hope or whatever. It's supposed to be people being people (unlike the Spiderman-in-train thing from Spiderman 2). One side did it out of wimpiness (don't want the blood of hundreds of people on your hands), and the other side.... that's what I don't get. Why didn't the criminals kill the normal people? Because they'd rather die themselves than kill more people? A sense of nobility?
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We saw 300 in the same IMAX theater, and those nipples were like the size of my body. That was mildly frightening.
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Boat scenario: the greatest bit about this scene is that before it, Joker can predict Batman's every move and motive. Everything up until that point has gone exactly according to Joker's plan. But he doesn't predict "normal" people's behavior. Sure, its kinda cheesy, but it makes Gotham salvageable. In real life: I think there would be emergency boat/rafts, bomb squads, extra ferries, some way to dump the gas drums, moving everyone to one ferry, or at the very least a two way communication between the ferries.
And honestly the Joker must have the superpower ability to summon explosives where ever he pleases! (and gas is not cheap!) Remember, the entire mob was arrested, WHO is moving the gasoline?!
Also the intro scene was awesome. And if you watch it again note that Joker has his nails manicured in the hospital scene! so many wonderful little details to be savored!
Also I thought Batman, Gordon, and Dent decided together to save Dent (off camera) (hence the three coin flips at the end) and that's why Two face was so angry that he had to tell Rachel everything was going to be ok when it really wasn't.. (I guess it would be an asshole move to say "yea they are gonna save me because I can save gotham and you can't" but saying "they are definitely gonna save you" is kinda sick as well.
Maybe I'm totally off, definitely the kind of movie that needs to be watched multiple times. (the batman/joker scenes I could watch dozens of times... they are the best combination)